Public Service Minister Nicola Willis defends job cuts before select committee

The government’s move to cull thousands of public sector jobs means taxpayers’ money is now being spent more wisely, the public service minister says.

Nicola Willis was before the governance and administration select committee on Monday afternoon, facing questions about slashing government department budgets, which has included thousands of job losses.

Her latest advice put that number at 3900 – made up of removing 2250 roles and closing 1150 vacancies. Further savings initiatives “additional to the baseline savings exercise” would remove about another 500 jobs.

Those numbers were still subject to change, with a number of change proposals still underway, Willis said.

Media reports – including RNZ’s – calculated a much higher tally, but Willis said they included some job losses outside of the “baseline savings exercise” that would have been gone anyway as part of standard restructure processes, or time-limited funding and projects coming to an end.

Change was challenging, but the government had a responsibility to ensure public spending delivered maximum value for money, Willis said.

“I am really comfortable with asking government agencies to consider, are there ways that you can innovate to deliver the same level of service while taking less taxpayer dollars to do it.

“In fact, that should be how we conduct ourselves every day, not just in the lead up to a Budget.”

The public service had increased 34 percent since 2017, but the public had not got bang for buck, she said.

“Are they seeing lower waiting times for elective surgery in the health system? No. Have they seen an uplift in literacy and numeracy achievement in schools? No. Have they seen a reduction in violent crime? No.”

Willis was grilled on job cuts in specific areas, and what effect those would have on the public. For example, Labour’s Ayesha Verrall asked for evidence that cuts to the digital safety team at the Department on Internal Affairs would not result in more children being exploited online.

But a certain number of staff was not a prerequisite for “positive change for New Zealanders”, said Willis.

“What is at issue is whether or not children are protected, not the headcount used to deliver that protection,” she said.

Frontline staff concerned cuts will increase their workload – Labour

The committee chair, Labour’s Rachel Boyack said some frontline police officers and medical professionals were worried they would be lumped with extra administration work due to back-office job cuts.

But Willis denied that.

“They may have had Opposition members and others tell them that, but in many cases those change proposals won’t have been taken through those organisations yet.

“The assurance that we’ve sought, in the case of the police for example, is that they focus their resources on front line crime fighting, which is what New Zealanders would expect I think.”

She was adamant that front line staff like healthcare professionals, Corrections officers and police officers were safeguarded from job cuts – but admitted it was hard to be clear about what “front line” means.

“It can be difficult to define, but you know it when you see it,” she said.

Affected public servants being looked after

Those facing job losses or involved in restructures were being provided mental health support, Willis said.

“I have sought assurances on a number of occasions to ensure that our employment assistance programme is up and running, that it is operating effectively, and is ready to respond to requests for additional assistance from agencies who are going through significant change processes.”

The Public Service Commission had been made aware of instances of delays in mental health support being provided, said acting commissioner Heather Baggott.

But it had “followed up” to ensure people were well supported, she said.